WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.640 --> 00:00:07.400 Good afternoon everyone and a very warm welcome to this Barclays event. 2 00:00:07.400 --> 00:00:08.280 Money mules. 3 00:00:08.280 --> 00:00:11.600 What are they? And how to avoid the trap. 4 00:00:11.600 --> 00:00:15.800 So firstly, some introductions before we hand over to our guest speakers. 5 00:00:16.600 --> 00:00:20.000 Firstly, I’m Ross Martin, Head of Digital Safety at Barclays 6 00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:23.320 and I work in our Barclays Digital Eagles Team. 7 00:00:23.680 --> 00:00:26.920 I'm delighted to say I'm joined by some excellent guest speakers, 8 00:00:26.920 --> 00:00:29.880 Sam Brooker from our Barclays Mules Team. 9 00:00:29.880 --> 00:00:32.560 And I'm also delighted to say we're joined by Ebony King, 10 00:00:32.560 --> 00:00:36.520 Youth Advocate and Founder of Elevate Her UK charity. 11 00:00:39.120 --> 00:00:40.040 Earning extra money 12 00:00:40.040 --> 00:00:43.040 for doing very little may sound attractive. 13 00:00:43.040 --> 00:00:44.800 The promise on offer of easy money 14 00:00:44.800 --> 00:00:46.040 with no strings attached 15 00:00:46.040 --> 00:00:47.960 would lure many people in. 16 00:00:47.960 --> 00:00:49.800 But what's the catch? 17 00:00:49.800 --> 00:00:53.720 Today you'll be hearing from Sam, who'll be providing an insight 18 00:00:53.720 --> 00:00:58.160 into what the banking industry are doing to monitor and detect suspicious mule activity 19 00:00:58.160 --> 00:01:02.880 and what Barclays are doing to help protect and educate our customers. 20 00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:05.960 You'll also be hearing from Ebony, who will be sharing her own story, 21 00:01:05.960 --> 00:01:11.360 how she was targeted and the consequences she has experienced as a result. 22 00:01:11.360 --> 00:01:15.360 Towards the end of today's event, there will be a Q&A session. 23 00:01:15.360 --> 00:01:18.800 So throughout the event, we would really like you to submit your questions 24 00:01:18.800 --> 00:01:22.320 using the functionality you see on-screen. 25 00:01:22.320 --> 00:01:26.480 And we'll do our best to pose as many of these questions to Sam and Ebony. 26 00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:28.320 So in the top right corner of your screen, 27 00:01:28.320 --> 00:01:30.360 you'll see the option to type your question 28 00:01:30.360 --> 00:01:34.400 and then simply click ‘Submit’ for us to receive your question. 29 00:01:35.600 --> 00:01:38.320 So now I'd like to introduce our first guest speaker 30 00:01:38.320 --> 00:01:40.400 Sam Brooker, from the Barclays Mules Team. 31 00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:41.760 Over to you, Sam. 32 00:01:42.240 --> 00:01:44.600 Thank you, Ross, and welcome everyone, 33 00:01:44.600 --> 00:01:49.160 and thank you for joining us today to talk about this very compelling subject. 34 00:01:49.160 --> 00:01:51.480 Money mules, so what are they? 35 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:54.520 I'm here to talk to you about how criminals 36 00:01:54.520 --> 00:01:56.960 use money mules to move money. 37 00:01:56.960 --> 00:02:01.880 So let's start at the beginning and try to explain what a money mule actually is. 38 00:02:01.880 --> 00:02:07.640 A money mule is someone who lets criminals use their bank accounts to move money. 39 00:02:07.640 --> 00:02:10.960 Often that mule doesn't know what's really happening 40 00:02:10.960 --> 00:02:15.280 and has been manipulated into believing a cover story 41 00:02:15.280 --> 00:02:19.120 or lured by an offer of a repayment. 42 00:02:19.120 --> 00:02:21.880 There are two main types of money mules. 43 00:02:21.880 --> 00:02:23.480 One of those will be witting. 44 00:02:23.480 --> 00:02:28.280 Witting mules are generally complicit with the crime. 45 00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:31.200 They are aware of the criminal source of funds 46 00:02:31.200 --> 00:02:36.200 and typically they can be recruited using social media platforms. 47 00:02:36.200 --> 00:02:40.640 Most commonly Instagram, WhatsApp or Snapchat. 48 00:02:40.640 --> 00:02:44.800 Account holders are generally lured by quick cash opportunities 49 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:48.120 and will disclose their account security details, 50 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:52.680 payment cards and PINs in exchange for monetary rewards. 51 00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:57.000 They may also receive and send on criminal funds themselves, 52 00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:02.440 but generally they're aware that what they're doing is actually wrong. 53 00:03:02.440 --> 00:03:04.520 Then on the flip side, there’s the unwitting. 54 00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:10.200 These individuals engage in mule activity generally under false pretences. 55 00:03:10.200 --> 00:03:14.760 It could involve exploitation, where they're duped into distributing payments, 56 00:03:14.760 --> 00:03:17.440 while actually being scammed themselves. 57 00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:21.400 You might also have heard the term ‘mule herder’. 58 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:23.760 So what is a mule herder? 59 00:03:23.760 --> 00:03:28.920 Well, they are the key support to the criminal gangs as it's them 60 00:03:28.920 --> 00:03:33.560 who recruit the actual money mule to do the job for them. 61 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:37.840 They do that by searching your social media profile for information 62 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:42.680 and then use it to befriend you, or trick you into receiving stolen money 63 00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:44.720 into your bank account. 64 00:03:44.720 --> 00:03:48.960 That's the key thing that a mule herder is looking for - you to have a bank account. 65 00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:51.840 They might approach you online through a messaging app 66 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:56.680 or actually in person at the school gates or in the workplace or at university. 67 00:03:57.440 --> 00:04:00.440 They are importantly the link between the mule 68 00:04:00.440 --> 00:04:01.840 and the organised crime gangs, 69 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:06.360 or OCG’s as we call them, along with law enforcement. 70 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:10.040 These OCG's could be funding terrorism across the world 71 00:04:10.040 --> 00:04:13.760 like drugs or human trafficking - sexual exploitation. 72 00:04:13.760 --> 00:04:19.520 And it scares me to think of the innocent people encountering these dangerous individuals. 73 00:04:20.280 --> 00:04:24.320 So what does money mule activity actually look like? 74 00:04:24.320 --> 00:04:27.360 Mule herders tend to lie to get what they want. 75 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:31.440 They might say it's quick and easy and, you know, 76 00:04:31.440 --> 00:04:35.760 no ramifications involved in doing it. 77 00:04:35.760 --> 00:04:40.640 And it's an easy way to make money, or that they urgently need to receive a payment. 78 00:04:40.640 --> 00:04:43.200 And you're the only one who can help them. 79 00:04:43.200 --> 00:04:46.440 But they can't use their own account for whatever reason. 80 00:04:46.440 --> 00:04:51.200 They might even offer a cash or gifts as a reward or incentive. 81 00:04:51.200 --> 00:04:56.200 The herder will use that cover story as an excuse to pass you that stolen money. 82 00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:59.960 They might ask you to open a bank account yourself, 83 00:04:59.960 --> 00:05:01.400 if you don't already have one. 84 00:05:01.400 --> 00:05:06.000 They might transfer money to you or give you cash to pay into your account. 85 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:09.640 They could ask you to pass it on by a bank transfer, 86 00:05:09.640 --> 00:05:13.640 or withdraw it as cash, or even ask you to buy, 87 00:05:13.640 --> 00:05:17.400 to purchase a high value item in exchange for the money. 88 00:05:17.400 --> 00:05:20.600 Importantly, passed back to the criminal network. 89 00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:23.480 They might ask for your online banking details 90 00:05:23.480 --> 00:05:28.880 so that they can do the activities themselves on your own account. 91 00:05:28.880 --> 00:05:33.160 Or they might ask for an activation code to access your banking app. 92 00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:36.640 But importantly, it lets them access your account 93 00:05:36.640 --> 00:05:39.480 and use it to clean their dirty money. 94 00:05:39.480 --> 00:05:43.600 Which means to essentially confuse the origin of the funds 95 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:47.560 and to make those funds appear genuine. 96 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:50.720 They also could actually buy an item from you 97 00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:52.960 and ask to pay by bank transfer. 98 00:05:52.960 --> 00:05:57.440 But the important thing is they tend to pay from a stolen account 99 00:05:57.440 --> 00:06:02.200 and you give them the item and often you can lose those funds 100 00:06:02.200 --> 00:06:05.240 once the criminal nature of them is understood 101 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:07.680 by the banking system. 102 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:11.560 So is it a crime to act as a money mule? 103 00:06:11.640 --> 00:06:14.040 Well, absolutely. Yes, it is. 104 00:06:14.040 --> 00:06:18.560 Unfortunately, handling money that comes from illegal activity is a crime, 105 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:20.800 even if you don't know what you're doing. 106 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:23.040 Money can often be traced 107 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:26.920 to someone who has been the victim of a scam or a fraud. 108 00:06:26.920 --> 00:06:30.720 I'm sure we all know someone who has been affected by a scam 109 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:33.520 at some point in the past. 110 00:06:33.840 --> 00:06:37.480 Whether they're old or young, vulnerable or not, 111 00:06:37.480 --> 00:06:41.840 UK Finance, who are the trade association for the banking industry, 112 00:06:41.840 --> 00:06:45.920 have advised that over £1.2 billion 113 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:49.120 was stolen through fraud last year. 114 00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:54.680 That's the equivalent of over £2,300 every minute. 115 00:06:54.880 --> 00:06:57.880 Most importantly, if we didn't have mules, 116 00:06:57.880 --> 00:07:02.480 there would not be a route to take a lot of those funds from those victims. 117 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:05.200 They simply wouldn't be able to operate. 118 00:07:06.680 --> 00:07:09.960 If you are a mule, the consequences can range from 119 00:07:09.960 --> 00:07:14.040 your bank account being closed, to even going to prison. 120 00:07:14.040 --> 00:07:16.720 But what is the reality of getting caught 121 00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:20.280 and what impact could this have on your lifestyle or your future? 122 00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:26.080 For most people, getting caught means that your bank account could be closed 123 00:07:26.080 --> 00:07:29.200 and you'll have problems opening a new one. 124 00:07:29.640 --> 00:07:33.480 That makes paying your basic living expenses so much harder, 125 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:36.560 removes any independence that you might have. 126 00:07:37.160 --> 00:07:40.080 You could find it difficult to get credit 127 00:07:40.080 --> 00:07:44.080 like a student loan, phone contract, or a mortgage or a loan. 128 00:07:44.080 --> 00:07:46.160 You could end up with a criminal record 129 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:50.640 and that could affect your ability to get a job or to go to university. 130 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:55.000 But you could also go to prison for up to 14 years. 131 00:07:55.880 --> 00:07:59.240 So it's important that you know the warning signs - 132 00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:00.920 the red flags to look out for. 133 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:05.400 This can help you identify mule herders and avoid falling for their tricks. 134 00:08:08.600 --> 00:08:11.760 Or contact from someone that you don't know 135 00:08:11.760 --> 00:08:14.800 trying to befriend you, 136 00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:18.640 especially online or through a messaging app. 137 00:08:18.640 --> 00:08:23.000 Look out for someone you may also, who may also ask you to move money for them. 138 00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:28.680 Always check that you know where the funds have come from. 139 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:30.720 Look out for anyone you've met online, 140 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:33.240 offering deals that sound too good to be true. 141 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:34.800 It often is. 142 00:08:34.800 --> 00:08:38.080 Be suspicious of jobs offering quick and easy money 143 00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:40.480 with no experience necessary. 144 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:44.160 Be wary of anyone who asks to transfer money 145 00:08:44.160 --> 00:08:48.040 to your bank account for you to pass on to another account. 146 00:08:48.040 --> 00:08:50.840 And take care when selling an item, 147 00:08:50.840 --> 00:08:54.280 where the buyer insists on paying by bank transfer 148 00:08:54.280 --> 00:08:56.760 or pressuring you for a quick sale. 149 00:08:56.760 --> 00:08:59.960 Or even paying over the odds, that's not usual. 150 00:09:00.920 --> 00:09:05.880 So what are Barclays doing to target mules? 151 00:09:05.880 --> 00:09:08.120 We focus on prevention. 152 00:09:08.120 --> 00:09:10.080 If we can prevent a mule, 153 00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:14.400 we can prevent a potential scam, and that means less victims. 154 00:09:14.400 --> 00:09:17.680 We do this by providing targeted education 155 00:09:17.680 --> 00:09:21.040 to our colleagues and customers on how to protect themselves. 156 00:09:21.040 --> 00:09:25.880 Our priority is to protect our customers as well as society in general 157 00:09:25.880 --> 00:09:31.000 of the dangers presented by criminal gangs who are at the heart of this problem. 158 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:36.120 Last year, 43% of mule cases identified by Barclays 159 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:39.200 were individuals under the age of 25. 160 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:42.560 So we tend to do lots of targeted messages 161 00:09:42.560 --> 00:09:45.120 in those younger age categories. 162 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:48.520 The children's digital banking market is expanding. 163 00:09:48.520 --> 00:09:53.040 UK finance revealed that the number of 14 to 18-year-olds 164 00:09:53.040 --> 00:09:58.960 misusing their bank account rose by 73% in the last two years. 165 00:09:58.960 --> 00:10:02.120 There are even reports of children as young as 12 166 00:10:02.120 --> 00:10:06.080 being persuaded to comply with the misuse of their accounts. 167 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:09.640 If we can't prevent someone being recruited, 168 00:10:09.640 --> 00:10:13.120 we do also monitor payments and react in the moment 169 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:18.080 as time is of the essence to trap criminal funds before the mule can move them. 170 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:20.760 We also work with many suppliers 171 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:24.720 who provide a range of ways to detect money mules. 172 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:28.360 But more than ever, we're sharing more information 173 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:31.960 across the banking industry to jointly tackle the problem. 174 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:35.120 There is more government regulation coming to banks, 175 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:39.240 which compels the whole industry to collaborate and work together. 176 00:10:39.920 --> 00:10:43.160 Over the first six months of 2023, 177 00:10:43.160 --> 00:10:50.440 17,286 cases involving money mule activities were filed. 178 00:10:52.400 --> 00:10:58.920 And that includes 3,881 people under the age of 21. 179 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:01.920 A growing number of other age groups 180 00:11:01.920 --> 00:11:05.240 are also being recruited by criminal gangs too. 181 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:08.320 Between 2017 and 2021 182 00:11:08.520 --> 00:11:11.680 we've seen a 34% increase in the number of accounts 183 00:11:11.680 --> 00:11:16.160 belonging to 40 to 60-year-olds displaying money mule activity. 184 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:18.160 That's really unusual. 185 00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:21.720 But obviously, in trying to target all areas 186 00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:24.880 and all age groups in which mule operates, 187 00:11:24.880 --> 00:11:26.920 we know that genuine customers 188 00:11:26.920 --> 00:11:30.800 can sometimes be impacted as we try to look for suspicion. 189 00:11:30.800 --> 00:11:36.120 So it may be that we have to delay payment sometimes 190 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:41.160 just to check that we feel that the origins of that payment are genuine. 191 00:11:41.160 --> 00:11:43.520 But a key priority for us is always 192 00:11:43.520 --> 00:11:46.520 to limit the impact on genuine customers. 193 00:11:46.520 --> 00:11:50.080 We want Barclays to make money work for the genuine people, 194 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:53.160 not the criminals. 195 00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:55.400 And with that I'll hand back to you, Ross. 196 00:11:55.400 --> 00:11:57.400 Thank you. 197 00:11:58.600 --> 00:11:59.680 Thanks very much, Sam. 198 00:11:59.680 --> 00:12:00.880 Really insightful. 199 00:12:00.880 --> 00:12:04.360 Lots for us to think about, but really good to understand 200 00:12:04.360 --> 00:12:08.760 the size of the problem and what we're doing to really address it. 201 00:12:08.760 --> 00:12:10.920 Thank you very much. 202 00:12:10.920 --> 00:12:15.160 So, we're going to move on to our next guest speaker. 203 00:12:15.520 --> 00:12:20.440 Ebony, thank you for supporting this event today, it’s much appreciated. 204 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:23.240 And I'm sure the insight and thoughts you're going to share 205 00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:27.600 will add so much value for everybody who's attending the event. 206 00:12:27.680 --> 00:12:30.760 I'd like to ask you, first of all, if we were to rewind 207 00:12:30.760 --> 00:12:34.240 12 years ago, can you share what happened to you? 208 00:12:34.280 --> 00:12:35.880 What was your experience? 209 00:12:36.600 --> 00:12:37.920 Thank you, Ross. 210 00:12:37.920 --> 00:12:39.840 Good afternoon everyone. 211 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:41.920 What happened to me was that 212 00:12:41.920 --> 00:12:44.920 I actually trusted a friend, 213 00:12:44.920 --> 00:12:47.360 someone that was very close to me 214 00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:48.600 who was like a brother. 215 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:49.320 We were so close. 216 00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:51.920 He was like an older brother to me. 217 00:12:51.920 --> 00:12:54.720 And I had borrowed him some money. 218 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:58.560 It was something as little as, I think, £50 or something. 219 00:12:58.640 --> 00:13:00.920 I had just finished sixth form college. 220 00:13:00.920 --> 00:13:06.560 I was going into uni and I borrowed him £50. 221 00:13:06.560 --> 00:13:10.840 He said he needed it desperately and in the past I've helped him. 222 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:11.720 He's helped me. 223 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:13.280 We had like a good relationship. 224 00:13:13.280 --> 00:13:17.080 So I had no reason to think anything of it. 225 00:13:17.160 --> 00:13:19.600 So I borrowed him the £50 226 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:22.600 and then I kept asking him, you know, when will you pay me back? 227 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:25.680 It took a while for him to pay me back. 228 00:13:25.880 --> 00:13:29.520 And then one day, when he was ready to pay me back, 229 00:13:29.520 --> 00:13:35.200 he called me and told me that he has paid me back into my bank account 230 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:39.640 because he had asked me for my bank account a few weeks before that. 231 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:44.240 And then I, you know, I went to the bank, not on the same day. 232 00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:47.840 I can't remember exactly the timescale, 233 00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:53.120 but I eventually went to the bank to go withdraw some change out 234 00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:55.920 so that I can buy some things for my son and I, 235 00:13:55.920 --> 00:13:59.160 because I had just become a teenage mum as well at that time. 236 00:13:59.640 --> 00:14:05.440 And it's important to note that this account was a savings account, 237 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:08.080 it was a passbook account. 238 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:10.800 Therefore, I had no access to online banking. 239 00:14:10.800 --> 00:14:13.360 I had no access to mobile banking at the time. 240 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:16.800 So when he did say that he had paid the money in, 241 00:14:16.800 --> 00:14:19.720 I couldn't check using my phone. 242 00:14:19.720 --> 00:14:22.520 I couldn't check using laptop or internet. 243 00:14:22.520 --> 00:14:24.680 I didn't have any internet access for this. 244 00:14:24.680 --> 00:14:28.320 So I had to go into the bank with the passbook 245 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:32.840 and go to the cashier and ask to withdraw some money. 246 00:14:32.840 --> 00:14:37.200 So all this time, I'm just thinking like 'it's legitimate money' 247 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:39.040 I didn't know it has you know, where, 248 00:14:39.040 --> 00:14:41.040 I didn't know the source of where the money would come from. 249 00:14:41.040 --> 00:14:42.520 I just thought it was from him. 250 00:14:42.520 --> 00:14:48.680 It wasn't until about I think six to nine months later, 251 00:14:48.680 --> 00:14:51.400 I was at my mum's house, 252 00:14:51.400 --> 00:14:56.560 and very early in the morning, I got the loud bang at the door 253 00:14:56.560 --> 00:14:58.720 and it was the police knocking on the door. 254 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:03.560 And so they basically they came to raid my mum's house. 255 00:15:03.560 --> 00:15:07.000 And I was just in shock 256 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:10.080 because I was literally the teenager. 257 00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:10.960 I had just had a child. 258 00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:13.120 And I was just thinking, what's going on? 259 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:14.600 So they took me - 260 00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:17.800 so when I got to the station and I found out what it was about, 261 00:15:17.800 --> 00:15:19.480 like what it was for, for fraud. 262 00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:22.880 And I was still shocked because I didn't know what was going on. 263 00:15:22.880 --> 00:15:26.600 And then when I had to go to court, that is when I found out 264 00:15:26.600 --> 00:15:30.320 that the money that my so-called friend 265 00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:35.240 had put into my account, had belonged to someone else who they had scammed. 266 00:15:35.800 --> 00:15:41.680 So I was used as, my account was used, and I was used as a mule without even knowing, 267 00:15:41.680 --> 00:15:44.080 you know, without having any knowledge. 268 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:45.800 I was vulnerable and naïve. 269 00:15:45.800 --> 00:15:47.600 I didn't know. 270 00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:51.760 And then after that, I was very lucky 271 00:15:51.760 --> 00:15:54.680 because the judge just, 272 00:15:54.800 --> 00:15:56.040 they just gave me, 273 00:15:56.040 --> 00:15:59.840 they gave me community service and a fine. 274 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:05.400 This was, I was very lucky to not go to prison 275 00:16:05.400 --> 00:16:09.920 because I had just become a mum and I had no previous criminal record. 276 00:16:09.920 --> 00:16:13.720 I had good character, you know, I was just, 277 00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:18.040 a student going, getting ready to go to uni with a young son, 278 00:16:18.040 --> 00:16:20.400 like I was not, I am not into the life of crime. 279 00:16:20.400 --> 00:16:23.840 Yes, I was, you know, around, 280 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:27.200 I had friends, I lived on my own. 281 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:31.160 But I didn't, you know, everything was just new to me. 282 00:16:31.160 --> 00:16:33.440 So, I was lucky to not go to prison. 283 00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:38.640 However, my DBS, which is formerly known as a CRB, 284 00:16:38.640 --> 00:16:41.640 was stained for over 12 years. 285 00:16:41.640 --> 00:16:45.800 It had only become clear the beginning of this year, 286 00:16:45.800 --> 00:16:50.080 which is why I'm coming out to tell my story now. 287 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:52.160 And yeah, so, 288 00:16:52.160 --> 00:16:54.320 it was not a good experience for me. 289 00:16:55.080 --> 00:17:00.760 I was lucky because I actually was able to still get a job, to get jobs. 290 00:17:00.760 --> 00:17:05.280 I had a job within the NHS with a local authority before, 291 00:17:05.280 --> 00:17:08.440 but that's because when I explained my story to each manager, 292 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:09.320 they could understand 293 00:17:09.320 --> 00:17:12.280 and they could sympathise with me and see that it wasn't even my fault. 294 00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:16.200 But there are some other young people out there who they don't have, 295 00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:19.440 they don't have these opportunities and they don't get these chances. 296 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:24.000 So yeah, it's a very unfortunate thing that happened. 297 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:26.440 Ross, over to you. 298 00:17:26.520 --> 00:17:30.240 Ebony thank you so much for sharing all of that detail, 299 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:31.400 your experience. 300 00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:33.640 I can tell, just listening to your story, 301 00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:36.880 you went through an awful lot, especially for someone of such a young age. 302 00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:41.920 That's a lot to deal with and obviously a lot to, to take in. 303 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:45.840 I’ve got a couple of follow-up questions for you specifically, 304 00:17:45.840 --> 00:17:47.040 if that's okay. 305 00:17:47.040 --> 00:17:53.080 Firstly, were you aware of any other young people in your circle of friends 306 00:17:53.080 --> 00:17:57.160 that were perhaps allowing their bank account to be used? 307 00:17:57.160 --> 00:17:59.080 Being, were they approached at all? 308 00:17:59.080 --> 00:18:02.720 Was that something you saw sort of at the time? 309 00:18:03.760 --> 00:18:07.200 To be honest, it wasn't, 310 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:09.320 it wasn't as, 311 00:18:09.320 --> 00:18:14.040 I think it was going on, but it wasn't as rampant as it is today. 312 00:18:14.120 --> 00:18:19.160 So, you know, there was no cause for concern for me 313 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:21.640 because I didn't think it would happen to me, 314 00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:25.360 because it wasn't obvious like how it is today, basically. 315 00:18:25.360 --> 00:18:30.160 So I think there were few people that had been used as mules, 316 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:35.520 but it wasn't anything significant for me to be worried about 317 00:18:35.520 --> 00:18:37.600 or to be, to know about basically. 318 00:18:37.840 --> 00:18:39.320 Yeah, sure. 319 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:44.200 And I guess in your particular experience, in your scenario, 320 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:47.480 you were effectively lending somebody some money 321 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:50.880 and that was sort of how simple the, 322 00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:55.080 you know, the sort of agreement, the transaction was. 323 00:18:55.080 --> 00:18:59.120 I guess, a question, a good question to ask, if we can is, 324 00:18:59.120 --> 00:19:02.040 would the benefit of hindsight and just looking back, 325 00:19:02.040 --> 00:19:04.080 was there any one thing that you would say 326 00:19:04.080 --> 00:19:07.000 was a red flag for you at that time, 327 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:09.960 in terms of the conversation that was being had 328 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:13.520 what was being asked of you any, specific red flag? 329 00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:17.640 To be honest, there were no red flags at the time. 330 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:21.680 However, looking back on it now, a red flag would be 331 00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:27.040 the fact that the money that my so-called friend had repaid me with 332 00:19:27.040 --> 00:19:31.920 was more than the amount that I had borrowed him. 333 00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:35.200 If that happened today, that is going to be a red flag, 334 00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:40.200 because why would you be paying that three times more than what I paid you? 335 00:19:40.280 --> 00:19:43.960 And also another red flag, 336 00:19:45.520 --> 00:19:48.640 I mean, if back then, you know, the whole, 337 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:53.240 it wasn't, the whole online banking and mobile banking wasn't, 338 00:19:53.840 --> 00:19:56.200 we didn't really use it that much back then, so. 339 00:19:56.200 --> 00:19:57.920 But if it was now 340 00:19:57.920 --> 00:19:59.160 and if I had mobile banking, 341 00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:01.880 I will be able to check my account to see what, 342 00:20:01.880 --> 00:20:06.000 you know, to see the name on the account of where the money came from. 343 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:08.880 And then that would have made me think I'll contact him 344 00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:11.640 be like, you know, this is not in your name. 345 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:14.000 Whose name is this? Whose account is this? 346 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:17.440 And then I probably would, then I would have called the bank as well 347 00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:20.720 and found out, and where's this money coming from? 348 00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:23.800 So yeah, those, that would probably be the red flag. 349 00:20:24.040 --> 00:20:25.920 Yeah, thanks Ebony. 350 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:29.440 And would you agree, with technology now, 351 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:34.200 we can manage our bank account obviously via our smartphone, 352 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:35.200 we can do that online, 353 00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:36.920 we can do that 24/7. 354 00:20:36.920 --> 00:20:40.320 That makes it really easy for us to stay on top of 355 00:20:40.320 --> 00:20:43.440 you know, the things that go in our account, the things that come out. 356 00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:46.960 But I guess the other side of the advancements in technology 357 00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:52.040 means that actually young people, it's so much easier for them to be targeted. 358 00:20:52.040 --> 00:20:54.800 Would you say that's the case? 359 00:20:54.800 --> 00:20:57.400 Definitely. 360 00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:01.040 The access to social media that young people have, 361 00:21:01.040 --> 00:21:05.600 whether it's TikTok, these apps, a lot of these criminals target them through that. 362 00:21:05.600 --> 00:21:09.680 So, yeah, it’s very bad to be honest. 363 00:21:10.080 --> 00:21:11.600 Thanks Ebony. 364 00:21:11.600 --> 00:21:15.280 So I guess from your point of view, 365 00:21:15.280 --> 00:21:18.600 there's lots that you would really like to do to help others - 366 00:21:18.600 --> 00:21:22.960 young people who may be vulnerable, may be at risk. 367 00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:26.280 What from your point of view, what can teachers, parents, 368 00:21:26.280 --> 00:21:30.480 guardians, carers, all of those people, what could they do to help prevent 369 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:33.360 these young people falling victim? 370 00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:37.080 Parents, educators, teachers, 371 00:21:37.080 --> 00:21:42.600 the community, to be honest, should do more of talking to the young people, 372 00:21:42.600 --> 00:21:44.960 raising awareness, educating them. 373 00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:48.160 Showing, even if you can just show them a video online, 374 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:50.920 show them videos, awareness videos, 375 00:21:50.920 --> 00:21:58.560 you know, constantly remind them to be checking their accounts regularly 376 00:21:58.560 --> 00:22:03.280 and to be very cautious, you know, just constant education, 377 00:22:03.280 --> 00:22:06.320 they need financial education. 378 00:22:06.320 --> 00:22:10.160 Yeah, awareness, I'll say. 379 00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:12.000 Yeah, absolutely. 380 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:15.960 I guess it's making sure young people feel comfortable with 381 00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:19.960 actually having that open conversation with a parent, teacher, 382 00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:23.520 especially if they feel they're involved in a conversation 383 00:22:23.520 --> 00:22:26.520 that just doesn't seem right, feels uncomfortable. 384 00:22:26.520 --> 00:22:30.560 I think that's key. 385 00:22:30.560 --> 00:22:35.440 Just before we move into the other questions we've received during the event, 386 00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:38.920 so I mentioned the beginning of your charity. 387 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:43.760 So Elevate Her UK, I know coming up later this year, 388 00:22:43.760 --> 00:22:47.640 you've got a campaign launching on protecting young people 389 00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:50.240 from financial exploitation. 390 00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:54.000 Could you just share briefly why you're launching that campaign, 391 00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:55.520 what are you looking to achieve? 392 00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:56.880 Okay. 393 00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:00.240 Yes, that campaign is actually called ‘Don't Get Finessed’. 394 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:01.600 For those that don't know what finessed means, 395 00:23:01.600 --> 00:23:04.000 don't get scammed basically. 396 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:08.600 We want to raise awareness, like I said, raise awareness on these issues 397 00:23:08.600 --> 00:23:13.280 because not every young person is aware of the consequences. 398 00:23:13.280 --> 00:23:18.600 Not every young person is aware of how to avoid these situations. 399 00:23:18.600 --> 00:23:20.520 So that campaign will be raising awareness. 400 00:23:20.520 --> 00:23:23.000 It will be educating not just young people, 401 00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:26.760 it will be educating everyone in the community, teachers, parents. 402 00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:31.040 The campaign is also there to 403 00:23:31.040 --> 00:23:36.360 we're trying to see if we can get some policy changes as well 404 00:23:36.360 --> 00:23:41.360 because some of the young people, they are vulnerable and they are, 405 00:23:41.360 --> 00:23:42.400 they don't even know, 406 00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:44.280 like in my case, I didn't know what was going on. 407 00:23:44.280 --> 00:23:45.760 And I don't think it's fair 408 00:23:45.760 --> 00:23:49.640 that I got punished for something that I didn't do or I wasn't aware of. 409 00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:52.320 I think they need to stop punishing the, 410 00:23:52.320 --> 00:23:55.520 like they need to actually do proper investigations 411 00:23:55.520 --> 00:24:00.200 and find out the people at the top of the chain and punish them. 412 00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:04.360 And I think there should be more safeguarding measures 413 00:24:04.360 --> 00:24:07.720 for young people or vulnerable people, 414 00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:09.480 more early intervention, 415 00:24:10.800 --> 00:24:14.000 especially in the hotspot areas in London. 416 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:17.840 Not a lot of them have this financial education in schools, 417 00:24:17.840 --> 00:24:22.080 so it's good that our campaign video will be used in the schools 418 00:24:22.080 --> 00:24:26.080 that we go to, which are in London. 419 00:24:26.080 --> 00:24:28.240 We’ll be playing these videos in school, 420 00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:31.040 in the workshops that we go to, to educate them. 421 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:35.560 Yeah, and that's it really - the campaign’s just to raise awareness 422 00:24:35.560 --> 00:24:38.320 and to see how we can find solutions. 423 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:40.840 Yeah, that's amazing Ebony. 424 00:24:40.840 --> 00:24:43.280 I would definitely recommend everybody have a look 425 00:24:43.280 --> 00:24:46.640 at their websites, so Elevate Her UK. 426 00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:48.320 You'll find that online. 427 00:24:48.320 --> 00:24:51.240 Amazing work that you do there and much needed 428 00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:53.600 and I think just an example of how 429 00:24:53.600 --> 00:24:58.040 we need to come together across the industry, across all organisations 430 00:24:58.040 --> 00:25:00.200 to make sure that we can reach those people 431 00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:02.920 who need the education, they need that support. 432 00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:07.760 So thanks again, Ebony for sharing your experience, your story 433 00:25:07.760 --> 00:25:12.480 your recommendations in terms of making sure we protect young people 434 00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:16.720 before they even, you know, start being involved in these conversations, 435 00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:18.080 these interactions. 436 00:25:18.080 --> 00:25:22.840 So we'll now move on to some of the other questions that we've had. 437 00:25:22.840 --> 00:25:26.080 So thank you for the questions you have submitted, 438 00:25:26.080 --> 00:25:30.240 I'm going to pose these questions to both yourself, Sam and Ebony, 439 00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:31.240 depending on the question 440 00:25:31.240 --> 00:25:36.080 and I guess what's relevant from your sort of positions. 441 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:41.840 So, let me start with one of the questions we've had. 442 00:25:41.840 --> 00:25:46.360 So one for you Sam. 443 00:25:46.360 --> 00:25:50.320 In Ebony's case and we can't talk specifically about the case, 444 00:25:50.320 --> 00:25:54.840 but in cases similar to this, would the bank not ask questions 445 00:25:54.840 --> 00:25:58.680 as to the money coming in, going out of the account, 446 00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:00.960 which is not in line with normal activity? 447 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:02.960 What's your view on that? 448 00:26:04.320 --> 00:26:06.520 Yeah, it's a really good point. 449 00:26:06.520 --> 00:26:13.000 One of the concerns from hearing Ebony's story myself was that, 450 00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:17.600 you know, she's the one who's had all the impact 451 00:26:17.600 --> 00:26:21.840 and the criminals got away scot-free, who's done the actual act. 452 00:26:21.840 --> 00:26:25.080 And that is often the case with our money mules unfortunately, you know, 453 00:26:25.080 --> 00:26:29.240 you're the front person then, the only person who can be traced 454 00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:32.680 and the criminals stand behind that, unfortunately. 455 00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:38.080 What I would say is the more information that mules can tell us 456 00:26:38.080 --> 00:26:40.640 about how they got recruited, 457 00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:43.760 who was involved, any details they can tell us 458 00:26:43.760 --> 00:26:51.000 all adds to our ability to take action potentially against the real people, 459 00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:55.360 the real perpetrators of the crime. 460 00:26:55.360 --> 00:26:58.520 And we can feed that information to law enforcement, 461 00:26:58.520 --> 00:27:04.040 you know, and hope that there could be some broader action taken. 462 00:27:04.040 --> 00:27:08.360 But again, the more information that mules can give to us, 463 00:27:08.360 --> 00:27:10.760 we can take that into consideration. 464 00:27:10.760 --> 00:27:14.920 You know, if there's any vulnerability, exploitation 465 00:27:14.920 --> 00:27:17.360 of that particular individual, we want to know about it. 466 00:27:17.360 --> 00:27:20.720 And we want to give our mules, the opportunity to tell us, 467 00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:23.800 you know, if there's any other circumstances involved, 468 00:27:23.800 --> 00:27:27.800 that's really, really important because, you know, unfortunately, 469 00:27:27.800 --> 00:27:31.880 some of our young people are very, very vulnerable, as Ebony has pointed out. 470 00:27:31.880 --> 00:27:35.080 And, you know, it's not fair that they should feel 471 00:27:35.080 --> 00:27:38.080 the brunt of a criminals act, essentially. 472 00:27:38.080 --> 00:27:40.160 So, yeah, that would be my advice. 473 00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:42.640 Tell, tell as much as possible. 474 00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:44.360 Thank you Sam. 475 00:27:44.360 --> 00:27:47.880 I guess a follow-up question to that one is, 476 00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:52.120 if Barclays were to uncover a money mule, what is our standpoint? 477 00:27:52.120 --> 00:27:55.880 Do we close their accounts with notice to close? 478 00:27:55.880 --> 00:27:58.720 Would we ban customers from re-joining in the future? 479 00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:00.720 What's the standpoint there? 480 00:28:01.280 --> 00:28:04.400 Yeah, so typically 481 00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:07.520 what would happen is that when we receive 482 00:28:07.520 --> 00:28:12.640 a report that an account has received the proceeds of crime, 483 00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:16.040 we have to firstly secure that bank account. 484 00:28:16.040 --> 00:28:20.200 We have got a duty to obviously try to prevent those criminal funds 485 00:28:20.200 --> 00:28:23.400 from being dispersed and we have a duty 486 00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:26.400 the victim of that crime. 487 00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:31.280 Then we would investigate our account holder. 488 00:28:31.280 --> 00:28:35.520 That often involves contact with the account holder, 489 00:28:35.520 --> 00:28:38.760 again, to give them the opportunity of telling us what's going on. 490 00:28:38.760 --> 00:28:42.120 There could be another side to the story. 491 00:28:42.120 --> 00:28:44.600 But the typical action that we would take 492 00:28:44.600 --> 00:28:49.600 would be that depending on what story we do get from our account holder, 493 00:28:49.600 --> 00:28:55.840 it would tend to result in the forced closure of their bank account. 494 00:28:55.840 --> 00:28:57.920 Sometimes immediately, 495 00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:04.080 if we find that the risk presented by the account holder is too great, 496 00:29:04.080 --> 00:29:07.800 that we need to get them off our books really, really quickly. 497 00:29:07.800 --> 00:29:11.080 But often we do give them notice or 498 00:29:11.080 --> 00:29:14.880 we do give them another opportunity to sort of prove that 499 00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:19.080 they can turn, especially if they're open and honest with us, turn, 500 00:29:19.080 --> 00:29:21.880 you know, their banking around and, you know, 501 00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:25.440 and use their banking accounts exactly how they should do. 502 00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:29.000 If we do exit a customer, 503 00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:32.080 we do mark fraud databases. 504 00:29:32.080 --> 00:29:36.840 We're also compelled to do that amongst our industry partners 505 00:29:36.840 --> 00:29:40.120 to ensure that we're sharing information between ourselves 506 00:29:40.120 --> 00:29:44.480 and that everybody in the banking industry can see 507 00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:48.560 what potential risk a mule presents to them 508 00:29:48.560 --> 00:29:52.280 if they're opening, if they're deciding to open another bank account elsewhere. 509 00:29:52.280 --> 00:29:57.720 And that's why some customers will find it difficult to get a bank account elsewhere, 510 00:29:57.720 --> 00:30:02.640 because obviously reference to those industry databases 511 00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:08.800 are referred to within the application process for a new product. 512 00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:11.880 Thanks again Sam. 513 00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:14.640 Ebony, just coming over to you, 514 00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:19.800 so did you admit to being a mule, to the police unknowingly 515 00:30:19.800 --> 00:30:23.160 or were you coerced into accepting a caution? 516 00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:29.160 Is there any way you could have appealed the action that was taken 517 00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:31.320 based on someone taking advantage of you? 518 00:30:31.320 --> 00:30:33.600 Just wonder what your thoughts are on that one. 519 00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:36.640 The thing is, I actually said not guilty all the way. 520 00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:39.640 And I actually did, in the interview, 521 00:30:39.640 --> 00:30:41.120 I told them everything. 522 00:30:41.120 --> 00:30:44.120 I told them the truth and I told them that it wasn't me, 523 00:30:44.120 --> 00:30:47.080 but still that it was what, I mean, 524 00:30:47.080 --> 00:30:50.160 I have spoken to officers like years down the line recently 525 00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:53.160 due to the charity work that I do with other young people that go through this. 526 00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:55.240 And I asked them, officer, like, you know, why? 527 00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:56.160 Why does that happen? 528 00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:56.680 Why did they do it? 529 00:30:56.680 --> 00:31:00.280 And they said, unfortunately, because investigations take too long 530 00:31:00.280 --> 00:31:05.480 and are too costly, they usually use the account holder as the scapegoat. 531 00:31:05.480 --> 00:31:07.800 So basically I was used as the scapegoat. 532 00:31:08.800 --> 00:31:09.560 Yeah, sure. 533 00:31:09.560 --> 00:31:11.600 Thanks again for sharing Ebony. 534 00:31:11.600 --> 00:31:14.680 Just a quick question, follow-up as well Ebony is, 535 00:31:14.680 --> 00:31:17.520 in your situation, 536 00:31:17.520 --> 00:31:21.880 you're the person who you were talking with borrowed £50. 537 00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:25.120 How much did they actually put back into your account? 538 00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:29.320 I think it was like £250. 539 00:31:29.320 --> 00:31:35.960 Of course, that now might look like a little bit, because I know now 540 00:31:35.960 --> 00:31:40.240 a lot of these scammers are they put four figures or more, 541 00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:42.840 but then it was still, 542 00:31:42.840 --> 00:31:45.160 it was still something and it's still, you know, 543 00:31:45.160 --> 00:31:48.440 the way it was, the source of the money was not right. 544 00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:51.680 So yes, I bought them 50 and I think they put they would 545 00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:55.040 put 200 or 250 back in. I'm not sure. 546 00:31:55.040 --> 00:31:58.440 The thing is, I don't even actually know the exact because 547 00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:02.080 when I went to the bank, I just went do what I needed to do for the shopping 548 00:32:02.080 --> 00:32:05.080 and I never ever got to clear anything. 549 00:32:05.080 --> 00:32:08.360 The bank just closed the account and I couldn't even take the money out. 550 00:32:08.360 --> 00:32:13.880 So yeah, it was at the, in the court, 551 00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:16.520 at the court hearing that I heard, 552 00:32:16.520 --> 00:32:17.840 you know, what had happened 553 00:32:17.840 --> 00:32:21.840 and this is how much, I think it was like 250, yeah. 554 00:32:22.360 --> 00:32:24.400 Sure, thanks Ebony. 555 00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:27.920 And what we do know worth sharing is that in some cases 556 00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:32.520 people are given incentive to keep obviously some of the money, 557 00:32:32.520 --> 00:32:37.120 or it could be that they're offered a particular item, 558 00:32:37.120 --> 00:32:41.640 whether it be the latest pair of trainers or something of value. 559 00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:46.120 So we do see different examples of where people 560 00:32:46.120 --> 00:32:49.200 perhaps are given motivation 561 00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:53.240 in order to help somebody to move this money around. 562 00:32:53.240 --> 00:32:56.680 A question for you, Sam, if I can, 563 00:32:56.680 --> 00:33:01.760 are we looking at biometric patterns, new tech to see if different people, 564 00:33:01.760 --> 00:33:04.920 mules, are accessing the same accounts? 565 00:33:06.080 --> 00:33:09.400 That's a really interesting question. 566 00:33:09.400 --> 00:33:14.440 We, one of the stakeholders that we're, 567 00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:17.480 suppliers that we're working with at present, 568 00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:21.280 is one that offers biometric capability. 569 00:33:21.280 --> 00:33:24.920 So it is an opportunity for us in the future 570 00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:27.080 and probably a lot of the industry as well. 571 00:33:27.080 --> 00:33:30.400 So, yes, it's definitely something that is becoming 572 00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:33.760 increasingly more and more interesting to us. 573 00:33:33.760 --> 00:33:36.920 We can't say that say any more than that right now. 574 00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:39.480 That's great. Thanks, Sam. 575 00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:40.920 Another question for you, Sam is 576 00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:43.400 do you get business accounts being used for mules 577 00:33:43.400 --> 00:33:45.080 as these have different limits 578 00:33:45.080 --> 00:33:49.240 and are they perhaps harder to detect the patterns? 579 00:33:50.120 --> 00:33:51.960 Yeah, absolutely right. 580 00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:52.480 We do. 581 00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:53.080 We do. 582 00:33:53.080 --> 00:33:55.760 And you've hit the nail on the head. 583 00:33:55.760 --> 00:33:59.320 The reason being higher transfer limits generally, you know 584 00:33:59.320 --> 00:34:03.720 if you have a business account that is expected to operate, you know, 585 00:34:03.720 --> 00:34:05.720 with a lot of transactions going through it, 586 00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:07.520 then I guess the feeling is 587 00:34:07.520 --> 00:34:10.760 that that will go under the radar a little bit more, 588 00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:13.440 you know, from a monitoring point of view. 589 00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:20.320 But I can to tell you that we do catch an awful lot of business banking money mules, 590 00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:24.680 as well as personal money mules in Barclays. 591 00:34:24.680 --> 00:34:28.720 So yeah, we try to manage our defences 592 00:34:28.720 --> 00:34:31.760 across those segments quite equally, 593 00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:34.240 depending on the risk that they present us, 594 00:34:34.240 --> 00:34:37.520 because in one side of the business, 595 00:34:37.520 --> 00:34:41.160 they will present us more in the way of volume 596 00:34:41.160 --> 00:34:44.240 and the other side will present more in the way of value. 597 00:34:44.240 --> 00:34:49.040 So we do manage the risk effectively across the two segments. 598 00:34:50.200 --> 00:34:51.280 Thanks Sam. 599 00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:55.000 Just another question for you as well. 600 00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:57.720 Would you say due to the cost of living 601 00:34:57.720 --> 00:35:01.800 that we need to be even more conscious and aware 602 00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:05.360 of offers, of easy money 603 00:35:05.360 --> 00:35:08.200 and the use of our bank account, pay more attention 604 00:35:08.200 --> 00:35:12.040 as both of you have already mentioned, to what goes in and out of your account, 605 00:35:12.040 --> 00:35:15.280 yeah, due to that cost of living that we're seeing? 606 00:35:16.200 --> 00:35:17.160 Absolutely. 607 00:35:17.160 --> 00:35:19.680 From my point of view, I think I mentioned earlier 608 00:35:19.680 --> 00:35:24.320 that we've seen a 34% increase in the number of accounts 609 00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:26.120 being used by 40 to 60-year-olds. 610 00:35:26.120 --> 00:35:31.240 That's a really unusual age group to be involved in money muling. 611 00:35:31.240 --> 00:35:36.400 If I can be honest, normally it would be it would be our, 612 00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:40.520 very much younger age groups that would become involved. 613 00:35:40.520 --> 00:35:45.840 So that to me could indicate that people are feeling the pinch a little, 614 00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:47.360 you know, potentially 615 00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:51.400 looking at this as an opportunity to make a little bit more money. 616 00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:56.560 So, yes, it's absolutely a risk for those age groups. 617 00:35:56.560 --> 00:35:58.640 And, you know, for anybody 618 00:35:58.640 --> 00:36:01.920 who is feeling the pinch, my advice would be 619 00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:05.520 easy money is not always the best way of making money. 620 00:36:06.560 --> 00:36:06.880 Yeah. 621 00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:08.320 Thanks again, Sam. 622 00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:11.040 So a question I'm actually going to answer here is, 623 00:36:11.040 --> 00:36:14.800 how do the so-called scammers get one's landline number? 624 00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:17.160 We get numerous calls that are obviously a scam. 625 00:36:17.160 --> 00:36:20.120 So we're talking about the general theme of scams here. 626 00:36:20.120 --> 00:36:24.120 And I think to answer this question, is good just to raise awareness 627 00:36:24.120 --> 00:36:27.560 that in terms of any of your data or personal information, 628 00:36:27.560 --> 00:36:30.880 including telephone numbers, this can be accessed in various ways. 629 00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:34.120 One of the ways could be the number of data breaches we see. 630 00:36:34.120 --> 00:36:39.280 So if an organisation's details are hacked, 631 00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:42.000 if they can get access to that information, 632 00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:46.200 that could very easily be shared or sold on what we call The Dark Web 633 00:36:46.200 --> 00:36:50.200 so organised criminal gangs may be using that information and passing it on. 634 00:36:50.200 --> 00:36:55.320 But also the other piece of awareness we should definitely promote is 635 00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:57.960 be very conscious about anything you share online. 636 00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:02.120 So people tend to share too much information on social media 637 00:37:02.120 --> 00:37:05.040 or they're not verifying some of the details 638 00:37:05.040 --> 00:37:09.040 they've been asked to share in an email or a text message. 639 00:37:09.040 --> 00:37:13.800 So we just need to be extra vigilant, careful about what we share online, 640 00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:18.640 because that information, again, could just be harvested by a criminal. 641 00:37:18.640 --> 00:37:22.360 And that could even just be someone who's being very spontaneous, 642 00:37:22.360 --> 00:37:27.720 or it could be a more organised sort of targeting of certain people. 643 00:37:27.720 --> 00:37:33.600 There are also directories online where you find lots of personal information. 644 00:37:33.600 --> 00:37:36.960 192. com is a directory. 645 00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:38.480 If you're on the electoral roll, 646 00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:40.960 there's a good chance your details are going to be visible. 647 00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:44.480 And that could include things like your address, your telephone numbers. 648 00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:46.040 So it's a really good question, I think, 649 00:37:46.040 --> 00:37:51.120 just on the theme of scams in general, good for that awareness to be shared. 650 00:37:52.080 --> 00:37:55.560 I’m just going to check if there's any other questions that we've had. 651 00:37:55.560 --> 00:37:59.040 Thank you for the ones that have come in, 652 00:37:59.040 --> 00:38:00.400 lots to talk about. 653 00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:02.920 And one of the questions we do have is do you go to schools 654 00:38:02.920 --> 00:38:06.520 to educate young people from year seven upwards? 655 00:38:06.520 --> 00:38:11.720 So we absolutely do proactively educate not just our customers, 656 00:38:11.720 --> 00:38:14.000 but people across local communities 657 00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:17.080 and that's across all of Barclays touchpoints. 658 00:38:17.080 --> 00:38:20.640 So that could be through a virtual event like you're seeing today, 659 00:38:20.640 --> 00:38:24.480 that could be students joining from their classroom, 660 00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:27.480 an event that we deliver virtually. 661 00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:30.120 I'm going to comment on some resources just very shortly 662 00:38:30.120 --> 00:38:33.120 and I'll pinpoint some of the content that we have there, 663 00:38:33.120 --> 00:38:36.320 which is available for all different age groups. 664 00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:39.000 So certainly lots of proactive work that we're doing 665 00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:42.520 and I know lots of other organisations are doing as well. 666 00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:44.720 So with that, 667 00:38:44.720 --> 00:38:47.920 again, thanks for everybody's questions that have come in. 668 00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:53.680 We're now going to move onto some useful resources. 669 00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:02.040 So let's just move onto the first resource. 670 00:39:02.040 --> 00:39:05.400 So the first one is the Barclays website. 671 00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:07.560 So if you go to the Barclays website, 672 00:39:07.560 --> 00:39:11.400 this includes a fraud and security hub page, 673 00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:15.240 to really help people stay one step ahead of the criminals. 674 00:39:15.240 --> 00:39:19.320 Now, within this hub, we have a specific page all about money mules. 675 00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:23.040 This is the one screenshot that you can see on screen now. 676 00:39:23.040 --> 00:39:26.560 And this really does provide some excellent content and guidance. 677 00:39:26.560 --> 00:39:28.760 Everything from what are money mules? 678 00:39:28.760 --> 00:39:30.280 How can you be approached? 679 00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:33.080 How is social media used? 680 00:39:33.080 --> 00:39:36.840 What advice do we have for those people to support young people? 681 00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:40.320 So do visit the Barclays website. 682 00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:45.120 You can scan the QR code that you see on-screen 683 00:39:45.120 --> 00:39:47.400 and you can simply search for ‘Barclays money mules’ 684 00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:49.520 and that will take you to the page, 685 00:39:49.520 --> 00:39:52.960 that's the first listing that you see in the search results. 686 00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:54.960 So do have a look at the Barclays website. 687 00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:56.720 The next one, 688 00:39:56.720 --> 00:40:02.200 one that the team I work in, I’m proud to say have been managing 689 00:40:02.200 --> 00:40:04.560 and creating all the content 690 00:40:04.560 --> 00:40:07.560 for what's called our Barclays Digital Wings platform. 691 00:40:07.560 --> 00:40:11.160 So this is another great resource which is completely free 692 00:40:11.160 --> 00:40:16.160 for anyone to use, includes lots of great content on fraud and scams. 693 00:40:16.160 --> 00:40:18.480 And when you're on the main homepage, 694 00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:20.840 which again you can access through the QR code, 695 00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:23.360 or by searching Barclays Digital Wings, 696 00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:27.440 you'll see on the top menu there's an option ‘Online safety’. 697 00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:28.360 If you click on that one, 698 00:40:28.360 --> 00:40:32.240 it takes you to what we call our ‘Staying safe online’ hub page. 699 00:40:32.240 --> 00:40:36.960 This signposts to lots of great content, lots of tools, resources 700 00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:41.720 that you can access to help you protect yourself in many ways. 701 00:40:41.720 --> 00:40:43.920 So do have a look at Barclays Digital Wings. 702 00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:47.760 Click on ‘Online safety’ for more information. 703 00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:49.560 And then just a couple of others, 704 00:40:49.560 --> 00:40:51.480 in terms of further support, 705 00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:55.400 the first one being Victim Support. 706 00:40:55.400 --> 00:40:56.680 This is a brilliant charity 707 00:40:56.680 --> 00:41:00.480 that helps victims of crime providing free, confidential support. 708 00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:04.200 It’s one that Barclays has a really good relationship with 709 00:41:04.200 --> 00:41:07.840 and why I think this is such a great charity. 710 00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:10.480 When you think about any scams, any fraud, 711 00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:14.720 the experience that you go through, it's not just a financial impact on people, 712 00:41:14.720 --> 00:41:17.920 it can be physical, it can affect your mental health. 713 00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:22.160 So this charity does a huge amount, offers lots of great services 714 00:41:22.160 --> 00:41:25.640 to help people who may have fallen victim to crime. 715 00:41:25.640 --> 00:41:30.840 And this includes the hugely challenging navigation of the criminal system 716 00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:34.760 and people understanding their rights as a victim of crime. 717 00:41:34.760 --> 00:41:37.320 So do have a look at Victim Support. 718 00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:41.800 And the second one is the ‘Don't Be Fooled’ campaign. 719 00:41:41.800 --> 00:41:45.960 So Don't Be Fooled is a collaboration between UK finance and Cifas. 720 00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:50.560 It aims to inform students or young people about the risks of giving out their bank details 721 00:41:50.560 --> 00:41:53.560 and deter them from becoming money mules. 722 00:41:53.560 --> 00:41:57.200 So lots of great content again. There’s an excellent short video 723 00:41:57.200 --> 00:42:01.000 that you can play to young people, which really highlights the dangers, 724 00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:04.760 the consequences that you need to think about. 725 00:42:04.760 --> 00:42:09.520 So do have a look at the Don't Be Fooled websites as well. 726 00:42:10.080 --> 00:42:12.000 Now, as we draw to a close, 727 00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:15.760 I'm now just going to move on to what we feel 728 00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:19.840 are some really key takeaways both from Sam and Ebony. 729 00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:23.960 So first of all, we've heard lots from you Sam, 730 00:42:23.960 --> 00:42:26.880 lots of insight, lots of guidance, lots of work we're doing. 731 00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:30.440 But what would be your key takeaways for the audience? 732 00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:32.120 Yeah, thank you Ross. 733 00:42:32.120 --> 00:42:35.000 So my main takeaways would be that 734 00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:38.360 if you're receiving any money into your account, 735 00:42:38.360 --> 00:42:40.920 make sure that you know where those funds are coming from. 736 00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:42.400 And don't be afraid to question 737 00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:45.360 the person who's paying it to you, even those you trust, 738 00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:49.000 given Ebony's experience, unfortunately. 739 00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:53.680 A genuine person won't mind a little bit of questioning. 740 00:42:53.680 --> 00:42:56.800 It's valid in today's environment. 741 00:42:56.800 --> 00:43:00.640 The second item would be to be really wary 742 00:43:00.640 --> 00:43:04.680 of urgent requests, particularly to withdraw funds. 743 00:43:04.680 --> 00:43:07.160 Just pay to you really at speed. 744 00:43:07.160 --> 00:43:11.320 Mules absolutely need to operate quickly 745 00:43:11.320 --> 00:43:15.600 to move their criminal proceeds around the financial ecosystem. 746 00:43:15.600 --> 00:43:19.440 And you'll just be supporting them if you do that. 747 00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:21.920 So don't make it easy for them, 748 00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:24.720 you know, be very wary of those types of request. 749 00:43:24.720 --> 00:43:26.000 That would be it for me. 750 00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:26.920 Thanks Ross. 751 00:43:26.920 --> 00:43:28.400 Over to you Ebony. 752 00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:32.400 Thanks Sam. 753 00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:36.440 For me, yep, be careful who you trust. 754 00:43:36.440 --> 00:43:40.320 Friends and family could be recruited by criminals, 755 00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:45.720 so be very careful when doing favours that involve money. 756 00:43:45.720 --> 00:43:47.760 Always check your account regularly. 757 00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:50.440 Obviously, in my case, I couldn't check my account regularly 758 00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:53.760 because I did not have access to online bank or mobile banking. 759 00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:56.160 But nowadays, most of us do 760 00:43:56.160 --> 00:44:00.080 so please check your accounts regularly, your bank statements check them regularly 761 00:44:00.080 --> 00:44:03.200 just to see, you know, where money's coming from. 762 00:44:03.200 --> 00:44:05.040 You might not be expecting some form of money. 763 00:44:05.040 --> 00:44:07.440 Make sure you contact your bank immediately 764 00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:10.680 to find out where it came from before spending it. 765 00:44:10.680 --> 00:44:16.600 Because if you withdraw or transfer any money that comes from 766 00:44:16.600 --> 00:44:20.640 a criminal source, you will be, you know, punished, like in my case. 767 00:44:20.640 --> 00:44:23.400 And then the last thing is 768 00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:27.400 do not be fooled by the thought of making quick money. 769 00:44:27.400 --> 00:44:30.520 You know, there's a cost of living crisis right now, 770 00:44:30.520 --> 00:44:33.560 so if you are looking for an extra income, contact your local jobcentre 771 00:44:33.560 --> 00:44:36.640 because there are various job opportunities out there. 772 00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:39.640 Over to you Ross. 773 00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:42.360 Sam, Ebony, thank you for that. 774 00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:44.000 Obviously, lots we've spoke about. 775 00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:47.240 So, I think it’s really important that we just highlight what are those key takeaways, 776 00:44:47.240 --> 00:44:50.880 the things that we need to share with young people. 777 00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:55.240 I think if we just reflect on some of the things that we've touched on today, 778 00:44:55.240 --> 00:45:00.120 what we do know is historically money mules used to visit the school gates. 779 00:45:00.120 --> 00:45:02.720 They used to approach young people in person. 780 00:45:02.720 --> 00:45:03.960 The world has changed. 781 00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:06.680 The use of technology means that actually people 782 00:45:06.680 --> 00:45:10.840 people can now sit behind a laptop, they can sit behind a phone. 783 00:45:10.840 --> 00:45:15.080 They can do this targeting of young people in a different way, 784 00:45:15.080 --> 00:45:18.720 which obviously makes it even harder to catch these people. 785 00:45:18.720 --> 00:45:20.800 So I think that's something we really need to bear in mind. 786 00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:24.120 Young people are exposed to so much online. 787 00:45:24.120 --> 00:45:27.400 Social media has a real part to play in terms of 788 00:45:27.400 --> 00:45:31.640 what we see being shared in terms of adverts, posts 789 00:45:31.640 --> 00:45:34.560 but in the meantime, we just really need to make sure 790 00:45:34.560 --> 00:45:37.960 that young people are aware of how they can be targeted. 791 00:45:38.040 --> 00:45:41.400 So, I just want to say a huge thank you 792 00:45:41.400 --> 00:45:44.800 both to our guest speakers for all of your insight - 793 00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:48.520 Ebony, the experience you've shared has been really important 794 00:45:48.520 --> 00:45:51.680 so thank you so much for joining as well. 795 00:45:51.680 --> 00:45:54.280 Really encourage you to share the resources 796 00:45:54.280 --> 00:45:58.080 with your wider networks, family and friends, in schools, 797 00:45:58.080 --> 00:46:00.520 across the education sector, 798 00:46:00.520 --> 00:46:03.840 to make sure that we can prevent more people 799 00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:05.640 not to fall victim. 800 00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:07.320 Such an important topic. 801 00:46:07.320 --> 00:46:10.920 So a ‘big thank you’ for everybody who's joined. 802 00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:13.760 All of those people who've registered for today's event, 803 00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:15.120 it's much appreciated. 804 00:46:15.120 --> 00:46:18.680 In the near future, there will be a playback of the event. 805 00:46:18.680 --> 00:46:22.520 So do keep an eye on the Barclays website on our Barclays channels 806 00:46:22.520 --> 00:46:27.240 for more information to be able to view the playback and share with other people. 807 00:46:27.240 --> 00:46:29.760 But again, big ‘thank you’ for everybody who’s joined. 808 00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:33.440 and we look forward to seeing you at a future Barclays event.